Curse

Abedeus · Nov 16, 2009, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tastyy

You sure are a whiny lad.
Green farming is not that profitable, most green weapons go for 1-5k. It has nothing to do with "overfarming" because you can't overfarm bosses. The drop late is pretty low, too.

It's not profitable because it was too easy to farm greens and golds. People don't even want the skins.

Quote:

You'll be able to tank, but not hold aggro long enough. Not to talk about that you won't be doing DOA if you don't have a guild which does. Not many guilds do DOA often.

Why not.

Quote:

As I said, you don't use SF to tank. Mist Form, Kenetic armor, various Earth armor-skills tank as well.

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA HHAAHHAHAHAHAHA

Quote:

How did SF effect your gameplay? And how did SF effect the market, other than keeping it mid-low?

Well, I can't go into groups without being an Assassin. And notice that the ecto prices shake whenever there's a rumour about an incoming nerf. Also all the farming in dungeons make it useless for normal teams to try and do it, because a single assassin will kill boss faster without killing even 10% of the monsters in the dungeon.

Quote:

Kal Online
Silkroad Online

Do I really have to comment on quality of F2P games?

reaper with no name · Nov 16, 2009, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKB48

It's funny how many people gets all worked up over one assassin elite. If you don't like SF, don't run it, but also don't btch to these who do, we never said "DO use SF" to you, did we? And if you can't find a team to play with using your "good-old-fair" builds, too bad, try to convince these of us who do use SF to use balanced instead of btching at us like a dying mad dog, it will work better.

When people play team-based games, they like feeling useful. Very few people can have fun if they don't feel like they are useful in some way.

If you are not running SF, you are not useful. SF > every other build.

So, yes, SF does say to us "do use it". Or, more specifically, it says "use SF or suck".

We don't want to suck, but we also don't want to be forced to use SF to do it. And we shouldn't have to. This is a game with multiple classes. Each of them is supposed to be useful.

The existence of SF and the existence of all these other classes are in direct opposition to one another. If SF is fine, then these other classes should not exist in the game, since they serve no purpose. If these other classes belong in the game, then SF (in it's current form) should not exist.

Let me put it this way. Let's say that there was a new profession introduced called X. it has unique mechanics and limitations on what skills it can take. So, you go to make one. Then, let's say it turns out that this is the best build possible for X:

Mending
Vengeance
Resurrection Signet
Rebirth
Resurrect
Sunspear Rebirth Signet
Protective Bond
Retribution

Seems crappy, right? In fact, it's so crappy that there's no point in ever using it. Whether you can get through the game or not with it is irrelevant. It sucks, and there's no reason to ever use it. And if this is the best that profession X can offer, then there's no point to profession X either, now is there? It makes you wonder why they even bothered to put it into the game. It's just a waste of memory.

Guess what? When compared to SF, every other profession might as well be X. That's how much better SF is than everything else.

This is the problem with SF. As long as it remains the way it is, there is literally no reason to ever play any other profession.

The name of the game is "Guild Wars", not "Shadow Form Assassin Wars".

Martin Alvito · Nov 16, 2009, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tastyy

I am using SoS-build or Discordway. Sometimes I dust off my 55. SoS gets me tons of money from feather farming. Discordway is excelent way to pick-lock and tome farm. 55 is still in use with SS necros. SF doesn't get me anything. I guess it could be used for running.

Your argument is invalid

The question on the table was: how can you make money faster than UWSC? The fact that you're even mentioning feather farming or lockpick/tome farming proves that you don't have a clue. None of the alternatives you put forward is faster at money generation than the old UWSC was. I haven't touched UW in so long that I can't give you numbers on the post-Skeleton UWSC. But I promise you that dungeon running with SF is alive and well, and much more profitable than what you're doing. I'm willing to bet that eight-player SoOSC still gives better returns over the time if you don't mind the variance, and the FoWSC groups probably beat the pants off of you as well.

lishi · Nov 17, 2009, 12:59 AM // 00:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

The question on the table was: how can you make money faster than UWSC? The fact that you're even mentioning feather farming or lockpick/tome farming proves that you don't have a clue. None of the alternatives you put forward is faster at money generation than the old UWSC was. I haven't touched UW in so long that I can't give you numbers on the post-Skeleton UWSC. But I promise you that dungeon running with SF is alive and well, and much more profitable than what you're doing. I'm willing to bet that eight-player SoOSC still gives better returns over the time if you don't mind the variance, and the FoWSC groups probably beat the pants off of you as well.

Also a good reason of why feather farming is so profitable is because of Shadow Form

Tastyy · Nov 17, 2009, 07:24 AM // 07:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by lishi

Also a good reason of why feather farming is so profitable is because of Shadow Form

Ruby/Diamond farming is profitable because of Shadow Form.
Runs are profitable because of Shadow Form.

It's the skill of 101 uses, just nerf it so I can have a harder game and shit on everyones elses playstyle

AKB48 · Nov 17, 2009, 07:28 AM // 07:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

When people play team-based games, they like feeling useful. Very few people can have fun if they don't feel like they are useful in some way.

If you are not running SF, you are not useful. SF > every other build.

So, yes, SF does say to us "do use it". Or, more specifically, it says "use SF or suck".

We don't want to suck, but we also don't want to be forced to use SF to do it. And we shouldn't have to. This is a game with multiple classes. Each of them is supposed to be useful.

The existence of SF and the existence of all these other classes are in direct opposition to one another. If SF is fine, then these other classes should not exist in the game, since they serve no purpose. If these other classes belong in the game, then SF (in it's current form) should not exist.

Let me put it this way. Let's say that there was a new profession introduced called X. it has unique mechanics and limitations on what skills it can take. So, you go to make one. Then, let's say it turns out that this is the best build possible for X:

Mending
Vengeance
Resurrection Signet
Rebirth
Resurrect
Sunspear Rebirth Signet
Protective Bond
Retribution

Seems crappy, right? In fact, it's so crappy that there's no point in ever using it. Whether you can get through the game or not with it is irrelevant. It sucks, and there's no reason to ever use it. And if this is the best that profession X can offer, then there's no point to profession X either, now is there? It makes you wonder why they even bothered to put it into the game. It's just a waste of memory.

Guess what? When compared to SF, every other profession might as well be X. That's how much better SF is than everything else.

This is the problem with SF. As long as it remains the way it is, there is literally no reason to ever play any other profession.

The name of the game is "Guild Wars", not "Shadow Form Assassin Wars".

But the thing is, even without shadow form, there will still be ways to farm UW, and then you run into the same thing, people want only certain classes and builds. So either way, you are gonna run into the same problem, only certain classes are allowed to play UW.

And a note on Perma sins being not fun, actually it's not too bad, depends on the person, since running mtn/pools never gets old for me.

Abedeus · Nov 17, 2009, 11:25 AM // 11:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKB48

But the thing is, even without shadow form, there will still be ways to farm UW, and then you run into the same thing, people want only certain classes and builds. So either way, you are gonna run into the same problem, only certain classes are allowed to play UW.

And a note on Perma sins being not fun, actually it's not too bad, depends on the person, since running mtn/pools never gets old for me.

But without Shadow Form, people would actually have to use builds that can be countered by UW monsters.

Obsidian Flesh? Dazed, Interrupts, Conditions still all apply. And huge damage on HM. Spell Breaker? Can't be maintained without QZ. And can be interrupted/dazed.

Note that every single class, even Paragons and Dervishes, can solo farm in UW something. Smites, Wastes. But only an Assassin has a build that with minor modifications can run in any of those areas. 8 Assassins can clear UW with little to no problems. 8 monks? No. 8 Elementalists? No.

Hell, even normal teams have problems, because SF just makes you ignore 90% of the monsters and laugh at them. Without losing mobility like Obsidian or being vulnerable to conditions and interrupts like Spell Breaker. SF is Protective Spirit, Healing Breeze/Spirit Bond and Spell Breaker IN ONE SPELL. Plus add immunity to physical attacks.

reaper with no name · Nov 17, 2009, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKB48

But the thing is, even without shadow form, there will still be ways to farm UW, and then you run into the same thing, people want only certain classes and builds. So either way, you are gonna run into the same problem, only certain classes are allowed to play UW.

And a note on Perma sins being not fun, actually it's not too bad, depends on the person, since running mtn/pools never gets old for me.

UW groups only wanting certain builds is not really a problem. Is it less desirable than a wide variety of viable builds? Certainly. But if every class has one such build, then at least everyone is useful.

Now, certain classes not being desired at all in the UW is a problem. But 2 or 3 desirable classes in the UW is certainly better than 1.

Also, you're not understanding the scope of all this. This isn't about UW. This is about all of PvE. Honestly, it's not that big of a deal if one class can solo farm a couple of areas (see 55 monks) . But when one class can curbstomp everything in the game to the point that there's no reason to ever use any other class, then there is a problem big enough to drive a cement truck through. That is the current SF.

Day Trooper · Nov 17, 2009, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKB48

But the thing is, even without shadow form, there will still be ways to farm UW, and then you run into the same thing, people want only certain classes and builds. So either way, you are gonna run into the same problem, only certain classes are allowed to play UW.

It's a good thing ANet doesn't (didn't?

) share your views on OP builds - otherwise Ursan would still be alive and well.

Although above I must say 'didn't' as I'm not so sure ANet really cares about balance anymore - since SF abuse is still running rampant through PVE-land.

Further, what kills me is how ANet nerfed Essence of Celerity juuuuusst to the point where only assassins (by just using DP) may still perma-SF - wtf?? Come on ANet - if you're not going to touch SF any further (which I really doubt they will) then to be fair, at least revert the Essence nerf and let the other classes in on godmode too! Right off the bat, this would allow monks to do SoOSC, eles to do FoWSC, etc, etc.

This would be much, much better than the 'sin only' approach we have now. Now understand I'd rather have SF nerf-batted to hell, but if this doesn't happen then the other classes really should be allowed to have godmode too...

Tom Swift · Nov 17, 2009, 09:54 PM // 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Day Trooper

Further, what kills me is how ANet nerfed Essence of Celerity juuuuusst to the point where only assassins (by just using DP) may still perma-SF - wtf?? Come on ANet - if you're not going to touch SF any further (which I really doubt they will) then to be fair, at least revert the Essence nerf and let the other classes in on godmode too! Right off the bat, this would allow monks to do SoOSC, eles to do FoWSC, etc, etc.

This would be much, much better than the 'sin only' approach we have now. Now understand I'd rather have SF nerf-batted to hell, but if this doesn't happen then the other classes really should be allowed to have godmode too...

100% agree

Though I don't think nerfing SF will actually do anything for the game (the economy and pugging aree trains that have already left the station and ain't comin back) I do agree it is overpowered.

And If they are not going to nerf it, at least let other profs in on the farming.

snowman relic · Nov 17, 2009, 10:04 PM // 22:04

hello everyone your attention if you please ive got something that might interest you, ectos ive seen were as of late higher then they have been in a long time. 7.5k at trader and if it stayed that for long ectos from players would probably grow to 6.5k or possibly 7k because hey we all like profit. and you might say oh its just because some rich people are hording all their ectos but if u belive that you are truly kidding yourself have you not seen kamadan? trade has not changed in the least their and ive seen more high end trades then ever as of late and to others who dont see this as a bad thing i would like to see how you would react if whatever ectos shards or other items you have dissapeared and you had to start over because im sure you wouldnt then be to happy about how high ecto prices. this is going to greatly influence the GW economy yes it might be for the better at first get people to spread some ectos again for some profit but if it keeps up the rich will just keep getting richer and widening the gap making the new people with a disadvantage more then theve ever had before because how long before mony is a status symbol allowing you into groups? how long before gold value itself deflates untill 1 platnum is nothing? i think Gw finally should band together as a community and work on how to fix this problem and please stop complaining about clears. monks run duengons for 10k a person in some instances and you hear no complainers i dont have a monk but i have no grudge against them yet with sins i have a perma myself ive only been able to speed clear the underword twice and i only got an ecto from the end chest one ecto for those two runs you see this? monks are much better off but for some reason we pick on sins before i had a sin i never had a problem with it and i dont have a problem with monks so why dont we all try to get over our phobias of you know letting newer players get rich and keep the feild level. and if ectos were to go up in value i personally would benefit but what would be the point? to have a bunch of new players hate you out of jealosy as your old friends leave the game?

rangereminem1984 · Nov 17, 2009, 10:11 PM // 22:11

with the change to uw its proven you dont have to nerf a skill to effect the price of something

snowman relic · Nov 17, 2009, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Swift

And If they are not going to nerf it, at least let other profs in on the farming.

sure go ahead tom i like the idea instead of killing shadow form let every1 use it and you know what? people might make mony instead of mostly monks (do not say monks dont make mony, from the start of GW they have been a staple of the community because they are always needed)

max2562 · Nov 18, 2009, 02:48 AM // 02:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by the western warrior

hello everyone your attention if you please ive got something that might interest you, ectos ive seen were as of late higher then they have been in a long time. 7.5k at trader and if it stayed that for long ectos from players would probably grow to 6.5k or possibly 7k because hey we all like profit. and you might say oh its just because some rich people are hording all their ectos but if u belive that you are truly kidding yourself have you not seen kamadan? trade has not changed in the least their and ive seen more high end trades then ever as of late and to others who dont see this as a bad thing i would like to see how you would react if whatever ectos shards or other items you have dissapeared and you had to start over because im sure you wouldnt then be to happy about how high ecto prices. this is going to greatly influence the GW economy yes it might be for the better at first get people to spread some ectos again for some profit but if it keeps up the rich will just keep getting richer and widening the gap making the new people with a disadvantage more then theve ever had before because how long before mony is a status symbol allowing you into groups? how long before gold value itself deflates untill 1 platnum is nothing? i think Gw finally should band together as a community and work on how to fix this problem and please stop complaining about clears. monks run duengons for 10k a person in some instances and you hear no complainers i dont have a monk but i have no grudge against them yet with sins i have a perma myself ive only been able to speed clear the underword twice and i only got an ecto from the end chest one ecto for those two runs you see this? monks are much better off but for some reason we pick on sins before i had a sin i never had a problem with it and i dont have a problem with monks so why dont we all try to get over our phobias of you know letting newer players get rich and keep the feild level. and if ectos were to go up in value i personally would benefit but what would be the point? to have a bunch of new players hate you out of jealosy as your old friends leave the game?

you have some good points. but why defend this build? what makes this build so different in all its magestic wonder that warrants a pardon? every other solo build, that has been effective, has been nerfed in some way that makes it very much harder to use or limits its use to a degree that people aren't jumping on the bandwagon to start their careers in soloing. monks cannot simply go in to any area and decide to SC. sins can. eles cant either. sins can. hmmm.. no other prof can, but... you guessed it, sins can.

if nerfing this build can change the price of ectos so dramatically after all this time then maybe it needs to be evaluated even more closely. seriously? one build regulates ecto price? hahahahahahahahahaha dont try and sound like you care about the new and poor players.... thats a common democratic strategy and it doesn't work here. there is no democracy... you think because you had it easy that they should too? well I think because I didn't have it easy that they should not. sure I found a way to acquire a lot of gold... but I chose something that wont get nerfed so its very slow going. I rely on events to make my gold actually.
SC is frowned upon for a reason... it keeps people from playing the game as planned. if you can't because you are weak then you simply can't. it shouldn't be "if you can't because you are weak then... YOU CAN JUST PAY FOR IT!"
bottom line is... Anet doesn't necessarily have to nerf this build... but why nerf everything else that wasn't even as good and then leave one alone?

snowman relic · Nov 18, 2009, 03:21 AM // 03:21

Monks are always running duengons no their not speed clearing but they are used for vale usually in UWsc (according to pvx) they are in FoWSC and im sure if i checked others their would be at least one monk and they can also duengon run and the ones they run pay alot more then sins do.

and yes when you said eles dont have a farm like others do i hate that i find that extreemly unfair i belive each profession should have its opportinuties but then i went on pvx to see if eles had any use and i found 3 eles were needed on shitterflames (realname) DoA clear and that pays accouring to some of my friends who run it an armbrace about every 3 runs so they dont seem to have a dissadvantage their my thing is people complain because instead of looking for what they can do to earn money they sit in populated towns and yell at people with obsidian armor because they are jealous and the yellers were to lazy to work for it themselfs every proffession has its own little place to farm or clear find it people please because when perma is gone who is going to be attacked next? monks seem to be pretty high on the pedistal (im gunna get a hate spam with this one but....) hey dervs lemme just say with the way u guys are at you wont ever get a nerf cuz hey what else could they do? take 30 seconds off avatar forms? lol sorry

Quote:

Originally Posted by max2562

if nerfing this build can change the price of ectos so dramatically after all this time then maybe it needs to be evaluated even more closely. seriously? one build regulates ecto price? hahahahahahahahahaha dont try and sound like you care about the new and poor players.... thats a common democratic strategy and it doesn't work here. there is no democracy... you think because you had it easy that they should too? well I think because I didn't have it easy that they should not. sure I found a way to acquire a lot of gold... but I chose something that wont get nerfed so its very slow going. I rely on events to make my gold actually.

please dont tell me i had an easy time getting money on guildwars for the first two years i had never gotten over 10k for the longest time and then i started running odd jobs for 50g here 200g their and eventually wen feathers got useful i started farming them so no i didnt have an easy time getting mony and no i never used shadow form to get rich but i belive that it shouldnt be nerfed but be buffed actually

AKB48 · Nov 18, 2009, 04:24 AM // 04:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Day Trooper

Further, what kills me is how ANet nerfed Essence of Celerity juuuuusst to the point where only assassins (by just using DP) may still perma-SF - wtf?? Come on ANet - if you're not going to touch SF any further (which I really doubt they will) then to be fair, at least revert the Essence nerf and let the other classes in on godmode too! Right off the bat, this would allow monks to do SoOSC, eles to do FoWSC, etc, etc.

Yeah....here is a good idea by Day Trooper, if you aren't gonna nerf, SF, then make EVERY single other class SF too! So we can run UW with w/e profession we want! Yay~!

Right....perma sin isn't as easy as you think, that's why a huge amount of pug perma UW clears end up as f a i l.

Zahr Dalsk · Nov 18, 2009, 05:24 AM // 05:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

The name of the game is "Guild Wars", not "Shadow Form Assassin Wars".

I take a sort of pleasure in being pedantic, so I'd like to point out that the Guild Wars were a series of wars fought between powerful guilds (like, they controlled most of the economy and had reduced the lawful rulers of Tyria into nothing more than figureheads) some time in Tyria's history. That's what Guild Wars' title refers to - a point in the setting's background. It doesn't refer to ingame guilds, to GvG, or anything else like that; not directly at least.

So if the name of the game was really supposed to reflect what the game is, it should be called Team Skirmishes or something.

Arduin · Nov 18, 2009, 05:53 AM // 05:53

Okay, enough of the 'if you don't like it, don't use it' and 'perma sin is hard too!' crap, AKB48.

Having a skill ingame that is able to circumvent 90% of GW's mechanisms is bad. I can't see how people are still defending this.

AKB48 · Nov 18, 2009, 07:20 AM // 07:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduinna

Okay, enough of the 'if you don't like it, don't use it' and 'perma sin is hard too!' crap, AKB48.

Having a skill ingame that is able to circumvent 90% of GW's mechanisms is bad. I can't see how people are still defending this.

If it exists, it's legit, otherwise Anet had removed SF in one way or another during the peak or the ascent to the peak of SF using in the UW earlier this year(? I think...might be earlier), since it is "able to circumvent 90% of GW's mechanisms". And I wonder if you ever mtned before, or did you stay true to you heart and become the noob who was asking for a balanced party while everyone else is permaing? Over 60% of the perma pugs fail in one way another, there are only a handful of people who can get a ton of ectos with relatively good efficiency, others farm for 5-6 hours, get tired/bored and play something else.

And having a skill ingame that is able to circumvent 90% of GW's mechanisms isn't too bad, after all, I don't think people should be spending hours on end trying to get enough money to buy some weapon or armor, or w/e it is they want. If you think the whole point of the game is about trading or whatnot, go play eve online, as for GW, I think it's meant to be played in the combat zone, not in the trading post.

DreamWind · Nov 18, 2009, 07:49 AM // 07:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKB48

If it exists, it's legit

I'm sorry but this is pathetic. How is this sad thread still going with quality like this?